A Letter of Apology
Dear Beth Moore,
I owe you an apology.
I’m sure you’re wondering why, since we’ve never been in the same room together. Well, let me tell you, Beth (I can call you Beth, right?)… I’ve been very critical of you. I’ve avoided any type of event at my church that your books were involved in. I’ve even gone as far as to ban you from the women’s small group study that I lead.
And then there was the time I challenged you to a cage match. I’m really sorry about that.
Anyway Beth, I’ve realized that I may have been unfair to you over the years. At least a little bit. You see, I’ve always thought of myself as an ultra-progressive, 21st-century, modern (dare I say post-modern) woman. And you, well, I think of you as more of an early-to-mid-20th-century, stay-at-home-and-bake-things type. That’s not a bad thing, really. Just…. different.
And even though A Heart Like His was one of the best bible studies I’ve ever done, I’ve discounted you. I’ve made you the poster child (with a middle aged lady’s haircut) for all the things I hate about women’s ministry. Things like ladies’ teas, all night scrapbook crops in church basements, and gathering together to pray in breathless whispers.
I’ve associated you with things I despise talking about at women’s church gatherings. Things like home sales parties, casserole recipes, and diaper genies.
But what I’ve realized, Beth, is that it’s not you. It’s me.
I long for so much more. More women’s groups that go beyond our feminine insecurities and the cliche of being more like the ladies from Fried Green Tomatoes (I probably owe Stasi Eldredge an apology, too). I long for women’s ministries that speak to the hearts of women who juggle home, children, husbands AND work while pursuing a deeper relationship with God.
I long for women’s ministry that is relevant.
But everywhere I look, I see you. And that’s not your fault. I wonder if the church has built you into someone you’re not. I wonder if you’re being asked to be all things to all women. And if that’s the case, it isn’t fair. We need more relevant women’s ministries in the church. And we, the 21st-century, modern women, need to step up.
Beth, there’s nothing at all wrong with what you do. In fact, a lot of it seems really good. We just need more.
Yours,
Nicole
It is not easy to find a relevant ministry. And if you do, it may not be in your particular church. I have found a men’s ministry that is exactly what I need, and it is not in my church, and it is not what I would call popular. But it is SO relevant to me, and the struggles and challenges that I have in my life. And I thank God for it all the time. And I thank God for the men that He has put in it.
So, focusing more on what people (men or women) really need, than what church leadership thinks people should need, is a start.
HECK NO!! Men's & women's ministries are geared toward stay-at-home moms – leaving out those moms that work -OR – amazingly outdated men's ministry that lacks the balls to talk about anything relevant.
What would I like to see change? oh man, don't know if there is enough time to write it….
The most disappointing thing for me is the women's ministry. My wife can't get involved or attend any of the women's ministry events because they are geared soley for stay-at-home moms. Sorry, if we are less Christian because my wife chooses to work. But – that is the attitude we get from the women. So..I dunno, maybe women's ministry should be for…oh…let's say…ALL WOMEN? Not just the ones that stay home.
As for the men…..
it just needs to change..completely.
Later,
T
Wow…great post. I tire so much of seeing all the “new” Christians doing nothing but slamming the Beth Moores of the world. Sure, they're not perfect and sometimes they can go too far. But Beth reaches a segment of women, encourages, teaches and uplifts them. We shouldn't dismiss that just because it may not reach a segment of the entire female population.
I've come to look at men's ministry that way. Sometimes the mens' group focuses on issues that aren't relevant to me so I just wait until they move on to a new study and if it's something that impacts me I'll participate. It doesn't mean it's not relevant at all…just not relevant at the time.
Nicely done, Nicole.
I also struggle with finding a good women's bible study that happens in the evenings. I started my own on Saturdays. Not much is geared toward working women. Sad.
poor beth! Buwahahahahhahahahahhaahhahahaa…..
Thanks. That's exactly my point. It's not bad… it's just not for me. Or lots of other women like me. We don;t need to get rid of Beth Moore or the scrapbook nights we just need more of other things, for other types of women. too.
Haha! I'll take on Dave Ramsey next just for you ;)
OH Nicole-
I used to think I liked you… I have followed you on Twitter and even read many of your blogs… but NOW you have done it! I know where the line is… and I have crossed it. I no longer think I like you, but now I have to wrestle with my feelings of LOVE for you and your ability to express my thoughts SO FREELY.
I am a woman and a pastor which, by default also makes me the Pastor of Women's Ministry. I long for relevant ministry to women of all cultures and callings. I long to help women be LEADERS in their workplace, regardless of where their workplace is. I want to engage mature women and have them pouring their life experiences and wisdom into the lives of younger women. They are just not having it… My prayer is to bridge the generational gaps and engage our women.
Maybe I need to repent from my stand of “NOT becoming the church of Beth Moore” also. Thanks for your honesty!
I can only handle one accident a week. LOL
This is SO VERY TRUE… I attend one of the largest (and I think one of the best bible preaching churches I have ever been in) BUT… what do they have during the week IN THE DAYTIME– some of the ONLY women's events (gatherings. studies etc.). It ticks me off.
I feel so completely left out where “women's ministry” is involved around here. It's usually a monthly gathering to discuss other people, eat cookies, and to my way of thinking…superficial. I so much long for MORE, a deeper understanding of the scriptures, a stronger faith.
I simply don't FIT.
I loooooooooooved this. Like, I really, really looooooooooooooooooooved it.
As someone who once said (to a big church's Women's Ministries Director), “Don't EVER talk to me like you're freaking Beth Moore again! Ever.”, I read this post while nodding my head emphatically in agreement.
I know. That's why I had to start my own. And I really did ban Beth Moore. And Joyce Meyer.
Thank you so much for your kind words. I used to think I was the only one who felt this way. It's nice to know we're not alone!
I'm dying laughing! Hahaha!
Ugh…. I've experienced the exact same types of “ministry”. It makes me want to scratch my eyes out.
Wow – you said so many things I have felt for so long – yet somehow I still can have the tendency to feel shame that I am not “that” woman. I've been at home for 8 years with my girls but just got my master's and plan to start working now and have had to really fight the part of me that still compares myself to what is all around me. I saw your tweet the other day about the woman who is raising homemakers and after i read her blog post i had that same feeling of shame creep up and questions start burning in my mind – “am I really a good mom? have i misunderstood scripture? am i screwing my kids up?” I would love to hear your response to that idea of raising homemakers – or maybe even more just encouragement for women who are not. :) So glad I have found you and your voice!
While I have enjoyed and learned from some of Beth Moore's Ministry, I totally agree with your point. For so long, in women's ministry, we have tried to stuff all women in this neat little box, and if they don't fit, they're “THAT” girl. “Oh, yes, that one… you know, the one with the tattoo.” My sister-in-law actually left her church as they were getting really close to the Lord, because she was known as “the one with the tattoo.” It was so sad :(
I have banned myself from the women's ministry at my church, as you know, Nicole, because I cannot stand the passive agressive “joking,” the “bless her heart,” the getting offended at every sneeze. Just can't take it. While we are not in complete agreement on every issue, I imagine I would LOVE to be in a women's group with someone like you, where we can be our real selves and seek true healing!
Nicole,
I have been a working, single mom since my son was two, and I have never felt that Beth's bible studies were not relevant to me.
I attend the same church here in Houston as Beth Moore, and I can tell you that her ministry has changed the lives of many, many women. I have never attended one of her Tuesday night bible studies, but I can tell you that she draws thousands of women who want a deeper relationship with God. I know women who don't work and drive two hours each way to attend. I have also worked with women who attend straight from the workplace. I've also been part of several small groups that meet at times and places that work for us to study Beth's lessons.
There are certainly groups of women in almost every church who stay home and seem to have a knack for developing bible studies and activities during the day that seem designed to not only exclude working women, but to elevate their own stature, as though working women wore the scarlet “W”. Those women would do well to re-read Proverbs 31.
I do not believe that Beth is part of this group, even though there may be some of her followers who are. I believe Beth is doing what she was called by God to do, and I am thankful that she shares her gift for teaching biblical truths to women. I don't believe that she has been called to bridge the divide between traditional and modern lifestyles that exists in many women's ministries. Perhaps those people out there who feel that the women's ministries available to them are not relevant should listen harder to discover whether they are personally being tapped to step out and take action. And when you do step out, don't trample on Beth. Step up and follow where you are being led to deliver God's truths in a relevant ministry.
I enjoy your posts, and even though I don't always agree on all issues, I like your openness and honesty. Greater things are yet to come…
@Silver,
Many that were closest to God didn't *fit* either. I feel like I don't *fit* either and often more times than not it has caused me to think something was wrong with *me*. Truth is there are MANY like us but for some reason our voices aren't heard as loud as the stay at home moms or the stay at home wives… Thank you Nicole for being a voice.
I actually think we agree on most points. Like I said in the post… A Heart Like His is one of the best studies I've ever done. And if nothing else Beth is an AMAZING bible scholar whose opinion I respect and appreciate. That said, I can't comment on what it's like to attend her church but I can certainly comment on what it's like to attend churches where her studies are being taught without her. And in my experience, and in a lot of other women's, we need more.
Again, like I said in the post. It's not Beth… it's me.
Thank you for bringing your differing opinion and your insight from yours and Beth's church. I appreciate it.
I love Sarah (the person that runs the blog that you're referring to) however she and I disagree on pretty much everything related to parenting and women's roles. EVERYTHING. I can only comment on my experience. I'm a working mom of three and I love working. I don;t regret it and I guilt feeling guilty about 5 years ago. That was the best decision for myself and my children that I've ever made. I have 2 girls and I'm not raising them to be “homemakers”. I'm raising them to be women.
And let me be honest with you. You are a good mom!
Typo: I quit* feeling guilty about 5 years ago.
I totally agree about the “tone” (is that the right word) or a lot of women's ministry. And I would LOVE for you to be in my bible study. We agree on all the important things ;)
I am a full-time working mom who happens to like Beth Moore and attends the scapbooking events, BUT I do agree that it is difficult to become involved in some of the bible studies that are set up at church because of the scheduling. Because of work and a child's (or children's) active schedule, it is difficult to sometimes get involved in the activities. You have to make a choice between your children or women's ministries, and for me, my child will win, because I have to be a witness and example to her first.
Like I said in the post, there's nothing wrong with Beth Moore or scrapbooking… in my experience we need more than just those types of things that appeal to more women. Women like me that would never go to either. And there are a lot of us.
I was forced to opt out of women's ministry due to schedule. I craved the connection with other women which is why I started my own group. The scheduling this really is difficult, and unfortunate. Totally agree with your priorities!
Is it bad that I read part of a Beth Moore book once and liked it? I might even go to a Beth Moore study, but I'd have to carry a lavender book with the cover printed in flowy handwriting font. And all the gals would look at me like a freak and try to redirect me to the room where the real men are planning the wild game dinner or the motorcycle road trip.
It's not Beth. It's the box they put her in.
EXCELLENT point!!!! Seriously, this girl know her stuff. Men could benefit from her too.
What about us single ladies who have never been married and don't have children? And we're also no longer considered young adults, so we don't fit there either. Most of the time I'm fine with being left out so to speak, but occasionally it would be nice to be remembered.
Thanks, both of you, and others who have chimed in on this topic.
LOL My “favorite” story that “uses” Beth Moore … My marriage completely disintegrated several years ago. I moved to an apartment to escape emotional battering and re-build my life. My “best” friend comes to my house, with Bible in hand, telling me why I absolutely HAD to return to my husband because God hates divorce. We got nowhere, I had finally escaped a really bad situation and knew that while God hated divorce, He also did not intend for them to live in misery and waste their potential. My friend left, only to return later with a book that she propped up by my back door: When Godly People Do Ungodly Things. Now I am SURE that's a great book…but I have a feeling it was not given in the same spirit in which it was written….
Nicole, you raise some very interesting points, some I certainly need to mull over. I'm sure a post will bubble out!
You are so funny by the way! :)
Nicole – I'm going to pass this on to some of the ladies in our new church. It's helpful as we try to set-up a ministry led by and for women who naturally are more like you than Beth.
Thank you, friend. That's the best compliment I could have ever gotten. Call me any time! Praying for you and all the things that God is doing in Memphis.
Can't wait to read it when you write it! ;)
I feel the same way about not having a good bridge for women when they out grow the young adult group. I was a single mom for a while and felt the same way.
I could not agree with you more. My main issue with type of women's ministry that you are referencing is that it somehow indicates that women should fell free to exclude themselves from studying ALL scripture. We tend to just focus on the “husband” passages for the kids stuff, or the passages that are on anxiety… and don't get me wrong these are all wonderful and needed BUT it does not excuse us from becoming scholars of all scripture and women who pursue studying our theology with fervor. As if being a woman means the only way we will be challenged in the gospel is through a husband or child… I THINK NOT! THANK YOU for branching out. This reminds me of a post I recently read which I bet you will love ( http://www.theologyforwomen.org/2009/12/pink-fl... ) After that I quickly became obsessed with Wendy's blog, her book- Practical Theology for Women and I'm currently working through her newest Bible study through Ephesians, By His Wounds You are Healed. I just discovered you Nicole- and I sure am glad I did :)
“I long for women’s ministries that speak to the hearts of women who juggle home, children, husbands AND work while pursuing a deeper relationship with God.
I long for women’s ministry that is relevant.”
This is precisely why I love Beth Moore. That's a pretty good description of her ministry.
The post actually wasn't about Beth Moore… it's really about my experience with women's ministry. And I'll repeat… Beth Moore is an amazing bible scholar. That is one thing that I really appreciate about her. I also said that I've associated her with things I hate about women's ministry which is not her fault… it's mine.
I think my husband's comment below is an excellent point. He said, “It's not Beth. It's the box they put her in.” And I think the “they” he's referring to are publishing house marketing departments and churches both many of whom have put her in a box.
I get that. I just found it ironic.
I've had similar experiences with women's ministry and don't always feel that I fit in. But I realize that what I dislike about women's events are mostly personal preferences, nothing more. Just because another woman likes scrapbooking or is a girly girl and I am not, it doesn't mean that I'm spiritually superior to her or that she's not also interested in pursuing a deeper relationship with God. There does seem to be a streak of condescension and “too cool for school”-ness in most criticisms of women's ministry—and I'm as prone to doing that as anyone else—and that's not a positive thing. Women have different interests, but we have more in common than not.
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you find my blog. I agree about needed a good deep scripture study. I love our women's bible study because we study the bible. No DVDs, no workbooks. Just the bible. It makes for excellent conversation!
Nicole, you crack me up.
It takes guts to refocus- but it's worth it. (True story) To prepare our inherited “women’s directional leadership team” for the heat they would soon feel during the coming changes in WM, we opened the meeting by showing the scene from Braveheart, where charging horses are bearing down on William Wallace & his men, to whom he screams “Hold!!” Is it a coincidence these women voted unanimously to fire themselves at that meeting?
What we do now isn’t better, it’s just broader. We lost a couple of great teachers who didn’t like the changes- and gained a few hundred women in the process who had been apparently held back by some invisible perfumed force field. Our leaders became more committed and new leaders appeared before our very eyes.
We’re still traditional in some ways. Our scrapbook groups meet in homes together and reap fellowship as a home group. But a Tea is usually something the girls pick up at Starbucks on their way to one of our many Beth Moore Bible studies. ;)
I think the only thing I'd change about it, is that I'd probably incorporate more of Jesus and the Bible. But other than that, oh yeah, it's great. :)
Nicole- I applaud that you wrote a open letter of apology to Beth Moore recognizing that it's not her but you. Kudos to you for being transparent and honest.
I do get your ” Women's Ministry stereotype” biases though. I can totally relate as I have had my share of issues with the traditional WM programming. I would rather stick hot pins in my eyes than go to a scrapbooking, tea, fluff filled womens event. I don't a crafty, creative, scrapbooking bone in my body and that's OK with me. Hey women come in all sizes, shapes and colors with as many varied interests if not more. I long for more depth of conversation and purpose.
I am however am a fierce Beth Moore and her bible study fan. I have done & led EVERY study at least once in the last decade + and have grown beyond my wildest dreams spiritually. I love her like a sister from another mother. She is a spiritual mentor whom I haven't had the pleasure to meet. One day even if in glory we will sit down with a cup of strong dark roast coffee and chat. You may wonder how or why I could love someone so much whom I have never met? BTW I love her daughters too. Beth speaks to the heart of a woman and helps bring the full counsel of scripture to life. (OT, NT, Greek, Hebrew, Commentary, Culture, History, etc. etc. etc.) One moment I am laughing hysterically the next tears flowing uncontrollably. You know the “ugly cry” type. She uses every color in the 64 Crayola box and then some to paint a vivid picture of exactly how relevant scripture is to our daily life. Her passion and love for God is evident and is just simply contagious. She is a no “bull” gal and I really appreciate that. She also doesn't pretend to have it all together. She is walking this thing out moment by moment sometimes falling but keep getting up like the rest of us. She is sensitive to where a woman is and never condeming or condescending yet holds the truth of scripture as the plumbline.
I Love, love, love Beth Moore, Living Proof Ministry & Siestaville Thanking God for them always remembering them in my prayers.
I really enjoyed reading your blog Nicole. Blessings
Well, I know that you attend a house church so it doesn't shock me that you're satisfied with your ministry opportunities. I love house churches and small church plants. I think they often get it right because they are so close to the people who attend.
Thank you so much for your kind words and for sharing your Beth Moore experiences with me. I appreciate it!
That is fantastic! I love it!!!
Nicole – Great message (and great writing btw – love your humor!) I so relate to this. It's refreshing to hear your voice!
Thank you very much. I appreciate the kind words and encouragement!
Yeah, it's amazing. There's absolutely nothing I'd change. But when I went to the bigger churches and mega churches, I'd say the only thing I wanted more of or would change would be that there'd be more Jesus and Bible involved….so weird isn't it? I mean, these big monster churches omitting the only 2 things that justify their existence. LOL!
I am a proud Beth Moore groupie and stay-at-home-mom (with a tattoo). And I totally get what you're saying. I think one issue is how “big-box” type churches use Beth's studies in place of really digging into issues and being real. I was a group leader for a Beth study at my old church, and we split each study week into two weeks to allow for more discussion (and to be realistic about women from every stripe having the time to sit down and do an entire study week in a week). Our meetings were on Monday nights at 7, and we had working women, single moms, widows, divorcees, sahms, etc as group leaders. So I know from experience there is a way Women's Ministry can be done to meet the needs of a greater range of women. But it's never going to be perfect.
I would also encourage anyone who is skeptical of Beth to check out her books, rather than the group studies. “Get out of that Pit” would have saved me a ton of money on therapy if it had come out sooner. I just finished “So Long Insecurity” and I wish I could afford to buy a copy for every woman I know. Her books are written for every woman, no matter her background or her current situation. She is not a prosperity preacher by any stretch (and I know you aren't implying that, but it's easy for her to get lumped in with the other big names in the “Christian writer/speaker” circle and assume she has the same theology.)
Yes, she has big hair, and a marketing team and a publishing company, and a huge following. But her doctrine is sound.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you have stuff to do. I'm so glad I found your blog- you seem like a sassy gal, and I like that in a blogger.
Blessings,
Jenn