A Conversation with Craig Gross

I recently had the opportunity to talk with Craig Gross, author and founder of XXXChurch.com, about his new book Jesus Loves You…This I know.

NW: First of all, I love the book. I love the challenge to go and be the Church. The examples you and Jason give are inspiring.

CG: Thanks. We hope that it blesses and motivates. If it does that, then we’ve done what we set out to do.

NW: At the beginning of the book you give us an important reminder that “it doesn’t matter who you are or what you do, Jesus loves you.” Why do you think that this simple truth is such a hard pill for some people in the Church to swallow?

CG: Well, sometimes it seems opposite of all the teachings in the Church. A lot of people in the Church, and I’m not saying everyone, have a “we’re right and you’re wrong” mentality, or the idea that we have the answers and that we don’t want to share that with anyone on the outside. When that happens, it becomes an inclusive nature. Our ministry at XXXChurch isn’t like that. We want to put a new face on this Christianity thing and send the message that people on the “outside” are always welcome. A division is created whenever there are two opposing sides. Look at politics and the Republicans and Democrats. In those cases, it becomes all about how we are different and all the ways we disagree. It’s always been that way. In fact it’s not very different from Jesus’ day. He had the Pharisees and the teachers of the law opposing him. Jesus was not a figurehead of the Church in his time. He was the opposite. That’s why people were drawn to him.

NW: I agree with what you’re saying about some people treating the Church as an inclusive or exclusive group. I love how you refer to that in the book as gathering in “Holy Huddles.” If we want to change that, how do we break out of the huddle?

CG: Christians have too many opponents. We need to stop talking about stuff and go do it. It’s easier to talk than to go and do what you talk about. Christians are the first to offer up what they have – if it’s going on inside of the church. We’ll be the first to show up on Sunday night and Wednesday night and in our small group, but we need to be the first to go into the inner city or to do similar things. The things that we talk about as a church sound great on paper, but not everybody wants to put it into practice. The most incredible things happen when you break out and just do it. Friendships develop that wouldn’t otherwise be possible.

NW: What do you think keeps us from doing this, fear?

CG: Yes, absolutely. Fear. We can’t wait for things to fall into our laps. We have to go out and pursue this stuff. There’s always a risk when you try something or reach out to people who are hurting. When we started our outreach to the brothels in Las Vegas, we didn’t know what we were doing. My pastor was in town from LA, and I told him about a woman working there. All I knew was her first name. He told me that we needed to go and see if we could find her. When we were driving out there I was scared to death, but I’m glad we didn’t wait around because she would have never come to find us.

NW: I know that some people in the Church question some of your methods. Things like the brothel outreach and the porn conventions bring out the naysayers. What do you say to your critics?

CG: Well, I guess first of all I say that I haven’t changed much. The only thing that’s changed about me is my hair. My message has never changed. Sometimes what happens is people go out and they have this fire to deliver this message, and over time it gets watered down. For me and for our ministry, if anything it’s gotten more bold. It’s hard for critics to argue with that consistent message. We’ve been playing this game for several years, and we haven’t changed the way we play.

NW: In the book you write that you’ve been a “target of organized religion but embraced by the porn industry.” How do you deal with that?

CG: For some, it can be tough to stay in this ministry. Let’s face it, we’ll never get invited to the cool parties, because we talk about porn and sex and addiction. The media opportunities for the ministry have been amazing. It’s given us a chance to take our message to the world. We know that what we are doing is important and that if we weren’t doing it, who would? I have developed so many friendships with people in the sex industry who deserve to hear that Jesus loves them. If people can’t deal with that, I don’t know what to tell them.

NW: Why did you write this book? Why did you think it was important?

CG: The inspiration for this book actually came when I was sitting in an airport and I noticed two books at the bookstore. One was some best seller by Joel Osteen and the other was Max Lucado’s 360. I sat there looking at them trying to figure out why they were such big sellers. Then it came to me that the reason that those sell is because the message is really easy to digest. It’s simple, while my message has been viewed by many as complicated or controversial. When you take away the things that we talk about with sex and addiction and porn, the truth is that ours is a simple message too. I wanted to write this book to edge away from controversy and get back to a basic concept, something that even my children know so well they sing about it.

NW: The book talks about how Christians peddle an imitation Jesus and how “Jesus loves you” has become a Christian cliche. How do we reclaim that?

CG: It certainly needs a facelift. Through the years we’ve hijacked it and twisted it up. We need to do a lot less talking and more living it. I like to think that XXXChurch has played a small role in changing that perception.

NW: Your kids, Nolan and Elise, travel a lot with you. As they’re growing up and watching this, what impact do you hope seeing your work has on them?

CG: That dad believes his message 100%. And that he has something that’s better, that there’s no one that we should write off, and that the work that we do isn’t just about porn or sex or addiction, it’s about delivering the Jesus loves you message.

NW: The book tour doesn’t look like a conventional book tour. Why did you and Jason decide to do it the way that you are?

CG: Seriously, I looked at the publisher’s plan for the book tour and was completely bored by it. It was all the same stuff that you always see: put an ad in Relevant, get on Christian radio. That hasn’t sold us a bunch of books in the past, and I wasn’t excited by it. So we made a deal with them to split the marketing money down the middle, and they would use their half on ad copy and all that other stuff, and we would use our half any way we wanted. Jason and I and a couple of the guys were sitting around the office one day just kicking around the idea of “what can we do.” We wanted it to have a huge impact and to be lots of fun. So we started thinking about all the chapters in the book and how we could do something around each chapter. It would be great if we went on this tour and sold a ton of books, but with the things we’re going to be doing on the tour, that becomes so much less than what we’re doing. The impact of it goes beyond the books.

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